Des iMacs assemblés à vil prix en Chine

[cgelinas]

C'est clair que c'est de l'esclavage quand les sous-traitants d'Apple paient leurs milliers d'employés un maximum de 17$US pour 12 heures de travail, pour un salaire horaire de 1,41$US — et croyez-le ou non, c'est élevé, comparé aux alternatives dans les usines, en Chine!

C'est le NYTimes qui a publié un article-choc sur le recours aux sweats-shops chinois et asiatiques pour remplacer les usines américaines — au final, on comprend pourquoi la classe moyenne américaine étouffe!

Voici quelques commentaires de lecteurs...

MPFlorida

The article and executives kept erroneously saying the jobs might return to America if there were enough trained engineers. Rubbish - they want people that will work for $17 per 12 hour long day in 6 day workweeks sleeping in on-site dorms ready to jump up to work at a moments notice. That is not work - that is slavery. SHAME ON APPLE and other manufacturers for outsourcing America's livelihood to slave labor camps.


suddenfun williston, ND

Those Chinese workers are slaves...$17 a day for 12 hours=$1.41 hr and I hear that is high...some work for .39 cents an hour...When they say that American workers don't have the skills they need they are lying...this is done purely for profit...thats the thing about slave labor...it helps the bottom line...And the Chinese government subsidized the factory...and our toothless govenment regulators are letting this happen because it serves the wealth holding capitalists in this country who buy our dirty politicians fair and square.


VT US

It makes me laugh of those complains against Apple, Foxconn, any companies, or even Google no matter how human or friendly they claimed they are. They're CORPORATE. They're machines, built for profit, not for humanity. It's true to Ford then, and it's true for Apple today. Now they're big enough any individual or collection of individuals even government can defeat.

Secondly those Chinese workers are not forced but choose pursuing better lives in their own perspectives. Don't tell those former farmers that they should stay poor with their dignity. Because you DON'T want to be stay poor with dignity, not poor from your concept of poverty, but theirs. When you go to China and see how poor the farmers are, you won't think they have dignity before you.

You, individual human being in US, your only job in this trend is taking care of yourself. Stop complaining, work harder, and lower your expectation. At least you can stay mentally health.


K Flyover State

I don't think anyone is fooled by the P.R. spin doled out by the Apple executives in this article. One only has to read comments posted by other commenters to see the huge discrepancy between the quotes given by "news makers" in the article versus the actual facts (note the intentional lack of scare quotes) present in the real world. I see that the New York Times clearly did not understand nor listen to its readers earlier this month.

Get with the program, NY Times. This kind of reporting is shoddy. Where are the tough questions? Where is the explication of the *root* of the issue? (Changing tarriff laws - which political party was for and/or against? Is the US *really* lacking engineers based on graduate school rates? This article does not even point out that the living conditions in these Chinese factories would be *illegal* (!!!) here!) Where is the analysis? Analysis does not = lack of objectivity. It is possible to objectively analyze facts...but not when those facts are not reported!

I continue to be disgusted with the superficial level of reporting from the paper of record...as per usual, the most pertinent information is in the comments.


well US

Owners of US factories should be made to live with less profits by all means possible , till the gets the jobs back. Or they can shut down and someone else will open the factory and live with less profits.


MONICA BALMELLI los angeles

It's bad. This article doesn't even explain the bad condition of the Foxconn workers. Learn more and sign the petition at:
http://www.change.org/petitions/tell-ap ... ufactories


KAASWA

Blog Discussion on Solutions to the Outsourcing Problem

(To the article’s authors: This is a very informative piece. Kudos to you! I became a Times subscriber a month ago just to try you out, and I’ve been impressed with what I’ve read here. I’m going to stick around. I’d love to see you guys do an entire series on outsourcing.)

To my fellow readers: I’m glad to see that there are several people here that see that outsourcing is a problem for our society. On April 28, I’m hosting a blog discussion on solutions to offshore outsourcing. You are cordially invited. Please see more details (including sign-up info) at the community event planner page for my account on the PBO’s website: https://my.barackobama.com/page/event/detail/gppycm . I realize some of you may disagree with the president’s stance on one or more issues, but this is not a partisan event. Your political affiliation doesn’t matter. The forces that place a boot on the neck of American workers, love it when we refuse to come together, reaching beyond party affiliation, to take on issues of economic injustice. Please attend to share your ideas of what we can jumpstart in the civil society and/or the private sector to solve the problem of outsourcing of blue collar and white collar jobs.


me boston, ma

Most people commenting here would bankrupt a business within a week.


urbanhiker Baltimore, MD

Interestingly, there is no mention at all that corporate taxes are to blame for the disappearing jobs. So much for that red herring...


Sean HoustonNYT Pick

It's sad how Obama questioned Jobs about what it would take to bring iPhone manufacturing back in the U.S. It's scary to think Obama needs Jobs to tell him that it ain't coming back … under the current national socio-economic conditions.

Too bad Apple is being spotlighted here – this story is not just about Apple.


Chipmonkstill Out west

Slave based Plantation economy is ingrained in US capitalism, specially the South. The current CEO of Apple who pushed them into outsourcing to China ( instead of say better automation in their US factories ) is from Alabama / Texas.

But the bigger shame is that in spite of all his Buddhist pretensions and pseudo - Hippie upbringing Steve Jobs went along with it and then had the hutzpah to defend it in his meeting with Obama last year !


harrym baltimore, md

The managers at these companies are uncomfortable with the argument "you're building over there to maximize your profits because labor there is cheaper, and that's hurting the American worker and you're unpatriotic". So the managers throw up a smokescreen about the "industrial manufacturing machine" that, for instance, Foxconn has created, claiming that no such capability exists in the US. But this is ridiculous, because the Foxconn facility and others like it exist solely as a consequence of the business they were able to attract as a consequence of the lower worker wages.

If Apple's software engineers invented "SimFactory" to simulate this situation, and the user dialed Chinese wages up to $20/hr and American wages down to $2/hr, what would happen? It's quite obvious, the little simulated computer people would begin building a manufacturing complex somewhere here in the US, and you'd eventually have a screen factory next to a screw factory in a town with tens of thousands of workers. It ultimately comes down to wages.

The argument about "we don't have the trained workers" is similarly hogwash. If the job opportunities were there we'd be training the workers to work them. It doesn't take 4 years of college to train a worker to assemble electronics on an assembly line, this is high school vo-tech level training. We're not cranking out students with this training because the jobs aren't there.

Ultimately, this is all because you can't live here on $2/hr.


Paul Salzman Kirkland, WA

Articles like this tend to choose a high-profile target, but we see this sort of behavior from companies of all types, worldwide.

Clothing companies like American Apparel and Lucky Jeans have not been able to keep all production in America. I recently bought a pair of Lucky's made in Mexico and assumed their lower cost products were now moved south, but when I bought another pair, I found they were made in China. Sad.

When I talk with companies here about sourcing product, it turns out that we can't even make products here. As a developer and manufacturer of electronic devices, I'm forced to China as they cannot only build the product, but help me develop the product and its manufacturing process. They have all the machines and engineers who know how to operate them! Incidentally, those machines are all designed and built in America and Germany.

The only thing left to build here is cars, heavy equipment and airplanes. Yet governments, like California, ride our manufacturers hard with ever increasing environmental restrictions that they don't put on lawn mowers and other gas-powered products from China. We need to cultivate auto-manufacturing and embrace it as important to our future, rather than look down upon it.

We've become a nation of service businesses, but I'm afraid that will end up imploding on us. It's like a pyramid scheme...eventually, there's no one left to provide services for.


Tom NYC

To quote the article:

"Each employee was given a biscuit and a cup of tea, guided to a workstation and within half an hour started a 12-hour shift fitting glass screens into beveled frames. Within 96 hours, the plant was producing over 10,000 iPhones a day.

“The speed and flexibility is breathtaking,” the executive said. “There’s no American plant that can match that.”

What's the proper response?

Steve Jobs, and iPhone comsuers, will have to wait a few more weeks.


rcleen NYC

How did China build up such an unbeatable manufacturing infrastructure? When Wal-Mart decided to ask all their U.S. suppliers to match the China price. It took decades.

The difference between someone in China earning $17 a day ($1.42 / hour for a 12 hour day) and the U. S. minimum wage is because an American worker used to make $1.42/hour, but it was the unions that fought for our living wage. There are no unions in China. Those who blame the unions in this country are basically saying we want to earn $1.42 / hour and don't give us any other rights regarding safety or human dignity.


Flatiron Colorado

The US is competing with China, and India and Brazil. Lets see how "free market" capitalism holds up against the planned and managed economies of these Socialist countries. America, we need an industrial policy.

"When an Apple team visited, the Chinese plant’s owners were already constructing a new wing. “This is in case you give us the contract,” the manager said, according to a former Apple executive. The Chinese government had agreed to underwrite costs for numerous industries, and those subsidies had trickled down to the glass-cutting factory. It had a warehouse filled with glass samples available to Apple, free of charge. The owners made engineers available at almost no cost. They had built on-site dormitories so employees would be available 24 hours a day.

The Chinese plant got the job."

And all America does is offer local corporate tax breaks to locate factories here....So at the end of the day, taking away American industrial know how is like taking candy from a baby.
Jan. 23, 2012 at 5:39 p.m.RECOMMENDED2

Teresa New York

A socialist-market system economy like the one in China, is an economic system characterized by social ownership and control of the means of production. That's why China's government was helping to build the new plant for Apple.

What place does this type of government help have in a capitalist democracy like the United States? Clearly the U.S. wouldn't own the plant and wouldn't benefit directly from its profits as China does. So what's the best way for this system to work in the United States, if at all?


Joel Villaflor Manila, Philippines

Wake up America! This is old news. It has been going on, for at least a couple of decades already. In Daniel Pink's book, "A Whole New Mind: Why Right Brainers Will Rule the Future." he writes that we are entering a new era, the so-called conceptual age, where skills such as accounting and computer programming, and other back office skills will be outsourced, and transformative abilities such as empathy and creativity are crucial in a new age "animated by a different form of thinking and a new approach to life." What's going on in most of Asia, including the Philippines, India, and yes China, is that they are leveraging their vast (and fast learning) populations where job opportunities have been less than plentiful. And these same countries put tremendous value on training and education to meet the expectations of their employers who also need to stay in business.

So basically no one is really losing. However, America also needs to realize is that she cannot continue to exist in a "factory" mentality. The truth about Pink's analysis is that you can't outsource creativity. And that is where Americans should focus her ever-shrinking brain trust. But if you must argue the nationalistic undertones in this debate, let's not forget Apple is still and always be an American innovation.


Amarendra4Allison Park, PA

The Supply Chain demise as well as lack of leadership in manufacturing and enabling technologies in the US can be put on the door steps of the leaders running businesses for the last several decades in our country. The short term focus of companies promoted by B School MBAs and Wall Street have hurt. Very few top B School grads have demonstrated any ability to be entrepreneurs. Their knowledge is often limited to a one sentence verbiage of competitive threats and needs prepared by their subordinates. The rapid decline in professionals with good knowledge of technology, with clout, in the executive board rooms (rather than being just yes men) is deplorable. Private equity firms have exacerbated the problems and made it difficult for small businesses to invest and succeed. Most major companies have been outsourcing research and manufacturing to other countries to reduce costs. The knowledge gap between us and other countries is rapidly decreasing and in many cases we are falling behind. Very few CEOs in major companies are capable of creating a business like Steve Jobs and bill Gates. However, there is no shortage of Wall Street and other business executives who get rich and who have no background, inclination or vision of the future.


Dick Tighe Morristown, NJ

We've had the types of "factory towns," mentioned in the article right here in the USA. Roebling, and others built factories, with towns attached, providing housing and other amenities. Mining towns still exist. Some of the "factory towns" were paternalistic, providing good housing, schools and utilities. Others, not so.

Some Silicon Valley companies, incuding Apple, provide benefits for their employess that include daycare, transportation, gyms and other support.

If Apple is serious about supporting the country of their origin, they could put their creative genius to creating the type of manufacturing facilities they need, in this country, as entrepeneurs in the earlier history of our country did.


NoHayChabo New York, NY

What a strange contrast Apple has become from its 1984 commercial, where an American is running into a room of zombied workers to heave a sledge hammer in the video screen of Big Brother. It seems Apple is now working with Big Brother for a more efficient and cheap means of producing product. I now look at my iPhone with disdain that it supports a Chinese government. Its profits supports suppression of free speech, a higher quality of life, and a threat to our way of life through ownership of our treasury bills. Because companies like Apple keep shipping more jobs overseas. What's even sadder, if Apple's interests overseas are threatened, it will be American men and women who will shed blood to protect a company that has no interests in sharing its success to the families of the military.

Our country's leaders, private and public, are leading us down a dark path.


metrichead Flemington, NJ

While the article made reference to many aspects of why it is advantageous to manufacture in China, the root cause of the economy that has blossomed there is overwhelmingly one thing, which is labor wages.

It is that economic inequality that should be tarriffed, thus taking this 'economic slavery' advantage away.


me boston, ma

"“We sell iPhones in over a hundred countries,” a current Apple executive said. “We don’t have an obligation to solve America’s problems. Our only obligation is making the best product possible.”"

Exactly. It is up to us as individuals and up to our government as our representatives to solve these problems. As individuals we can make sure to educate ourselves and have good skills. Our representatives need to ensure that our schools can teach such skills to those willing to learn them and to provide the type of environment where companies can succeed.

We can not force anyone to manufacture anything here unless the environment is right. If we force companies to produce here in an unprofitable way, well pretty soon no one will be producing here. Better, we can entice high tech companies with an educated work force, a predictable business environment, good infrastructure, and a steady tax regime. We also have to accept that we can not out compete the world in every industry. Some countries will be better than us in certain industries, but we can still compete in many.

Lets start by educating our kids so that they can perform engineering and design jobs. We should not lament that we do not have any 12 hour night time factory jobs where workers live on-site. We should instead prepare our children for higher value-added jobs so that they can enjoy a better life.


Jeff NYC

We can do this. But it will not work unless American workers are willing to work 12-hour days, 6 days a week for $17 a day. That's a gross wage of $5,304 a year for a 72-hour work week all year. Then the government must help to build dorms, and – while not in place yet, China is working toward universal health care – our government would have to provide universal care also – and on and on.

No matter what Apple executives say about logistics, speed and the availability of skilled labor being the factors in their moving manufacturing off-shore, and labor costs not being important – that simply isn't true. No American factory worker could live on those wages, none would work for that amount and none could, as it wouldn't be legal.

Americans are not spreading Democracy around the world. We are spreading capitalism. Those nations with cheap human resources are our sweatshops. As long as the government of those people are stable and do not threaten us or our capitalist buddy nations in any way, it's not so important to most politicians and capitalists what form of government those people live under as long as they will work cheaply and someone else will handle them.

Nike was vilified for its sweatshops. Is it because we love our Apple computers, iPods, iPhones, iPads so much and because Apple is such a success story that they are not vilified?


chipmonk out west

Clearly Apple, their sub - contractors and the Govt. of China are doing whats best for them.

But it looks more and more that Apple, now led by a CEO who during the Jobs era had pushed them into outsourcing, is no longer a healthy choice for the US.

The US still remains the largest market for Apple. Its now time for the US consumer to decide whats best for them.

Stay hooked to the all too "smart" phones - that are just new forms of "drug" delivery and at the very least lead to social delinquency - or chuck the addiction.


me boston, ma

Why should American consumers have to give up innovative products that better their lives just because they are not manufactured here. A sure way to impoverish everyone is to prevent them from obtaining goods that they like and can afford.


John M Hartford, CT

Is there an Environmental Protection Agency in China? I wonder what the air and water look like around the Apple Plant.

Massive dorms? I'm sure the worker-bees are stacked like cord-wood.

What a world - what a world...